Originally posted by ThomGN
When is vertical hinging being used? Putting (Pelz/PILS), chipping, cuts?
Due to its Power limitations, Vertical Hinging is best used only in the Short Shots.
Homer Kelley was no fan of Vertical Hinging. He thought it was important to learn in order to be able to differentiate the three Hinge Actions, but on the Golf Course, he strongly preferred Angled Hinging. The reason was that, on the steep Plane of the shorter Shots, Angled Hinging approaches the Layback Only characteristic of Vertical Hinging. However, it does so without the deliberate mechanical manipulation -- the 'Reverse Roll' Feel -- that is always required for Vertical Hinging.
Does that mean it's facing to the right (if I'm right handed)?
Thanks Yoda.
No.
We have our target line laying on the ground, usually parallel to our stance line. At followthrough, both arms are straight and the clubhead is still "underneath" our hands. The clubface, at this point, reflects the hinge action we've applied.
If the clubface's leading edge is parallel to the target line, horizontal hinge.
If the leading edge is perpedicular to the target line, vertical hinge.
If the leading edge is between those two extremes, or at a 45* angle to the target line, angled hinge. Here's where your question comes in. Yoda says that the leading edge for an angled hinge will point across the target line. He means that it intersects the target line at an angle (a 45* angle). The clubface is closing through impact (angled hinging is layback and closing) so the clubface will point 45* to the left.
It kind of hard to explain to someone in words, and I know I didn't "get it" right away either. But I (or anyone who understands it) could demonstrate it in under 30 seconds. Post if you don't understand my
descriptions.
[Bold by Yoda]
Another good post, Robot Buddy R2D2, and you've almost got it.
In 2-G, Homer is speaking in "approximations" and tells us that at the end of the Follow-Through, the Toe of the Club will point "along the Plane Line." Your conclusion that this would put the Leading Edge parallel to the Line is understandable -- but inaccurate -- and would actually result in an Over Roll. This Over Roll is a Swivel Wrist Action -- instead of the desired Vertical (to a Horizontal Plane) Hand Motion -- and it will disrupt the true Horizontal Hinge Centrifugal Rhythm of the No. 3 Accumulator (6-B-3-0) and produce Throwaway.
To see for yourself exactly how much the Clubface Closes through the Impact Interval -- and accordingly, how much the Toe points down the Target Line -- try this experiment:
Face a slightly open door with the doorknob on your right and the doorjam on your left. Position a putter or short iron on the face of the door with the Clubface flat against it and the Toe protruding slightly from the door's lower edge. The Shaft will be flat against the door and running up into doorknob area.
Now, push the door open while maintaining the Club against it. As the door swings open, watch the Clubface (and Toe) "Close" in relation to a "Target Line" (running North through the doorway). Though not on an Angled Plane, this is the exact Horizontal Hinge Motion the Clubface should take through Impact.
You can see that you would have to swing the door all the way open (a 90 degree arc) before the Leading Edge of the Club would be parallel to the "Target Line." And this would exceed the limits of the normal Follow-Through and Hinge Action.
So, in the Chip Shot Follow-Through example of 2-G, with the Club at 45 degrees to the ground, the Toe will be pointing "generally" along the Line, but not so much as to make the Leading Edge parallel.
Now that we've gone through the above drill and understand the correct Horizontal Clubface Motion through Impact, it is time to forget about the Clubface altogether and go about the really important work of Educating the Left Hand to produce it. Hold your Left Arm straight out in front of you with your Left Hand vertical to the ground in a karate chop position. Keeping your arm in its Horizontal Plane, swing it to the side just as if it were a hinged gate. Stop when you've made an arc of about 45 degrees (about half way between the front of you and the left of you). Then, lower the Left Hand down until it would point just inside a Plane Line. That is the position of the Flat Left Wrist at the end of the Follow-Through. Notice that your fingers are pointed generally "along the Plane Line."
After doing the above drill a few times to make sure you've got it right, put a Short Iron in your Left Hand (only) and repeat it. Verify that the Clubface does exactly what your Left Wrist does. This is Left Hand Hinge Action control of the Clubface.
If the left arm may rotate or swivel then why is swivelling not clubface
control? Also if we use hinge action and swivel then why is the hinge
responsible for clubface control seeing that the swivel has rotated the
face?
Hinge action has been defined as the blade of a hinge remaining perpendicular
to its Plane of Rotation. How does this relate to Horizontal, Vertical and
Angled Hinge actions?
[Bold by Yoda/Yoda.]
Our cat was at the vet, and I had only ten minutes to pick her up. Hence, the
formatting now supplied in this 'edit' was omitted. Sorry for the initial
sloppiness, but I can assure you, our cat appreciates it!
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ukhacker,
Here are the answers to your questions in the order asked:
1. Pre-Impact, the Left Wrist Action (10-18 ) includes a Swivel (for Swingers
only). Swingers Swivel twice -- first in Start Up and then in its mirrored Release. Hitters use only the Single Wrist Action of
10-10-C-2.
For both Hitters and Swingers, the Hinge Action controls the Clubface from
Impact to the end of the Follow-Through. At the end of the Follow
Through -- also for both Hitters and Swingers -- the Finish Swivel once
again takes control and rotates the Clubface On Plane.
2. The Flat Left Wrist duplicates the Hinge Blade. By holding it vertical to
one of the three Basic Planes of Motion, you impart that same Motion to the
Clubface. Holding the Left Wrist Vertical to the Horizontal Plane produces Horizontal
Hinge Action and a Closing (Only) Clubface. Holding the Left Wrist
Vertical to the Vertical Plane produces Vertical Hinge Action and a Laying
Back (Only) Clubface. Holding the Left Wrist Vertical to the Angled Plane
produces Angled Hinge Action and a Clubface that simultaneously Closes
and Lays Back.
I thought the vertical hinge was perpindicular to the plane, not parallel to
ground and that the horizontal hinge was parallel to the plane not
perpendicular to the ground. I thought the reference point was the plane, not
the ground.
The Hinge Pin is always mounted perpendicular to one of
the three basic Planes of Motion, i.e., horizontal, vertical or angled. The
Hinge Blade always rotates in a circle about its pin and remains
perpendicular to that Plane as well. This is simply how a hinge operates,
i.e., it is the action of a hinge.
In G.O.L.F., the Hinge Actions are named for the Plane of Motion imparted by
the Hinge Blade. They are not named for the always
perpendicular Hinge Pin. For example, a pin mounted perpendicular
to a horizontal plane produces a horizontal blade motion and is therefore
termed Horizontal Hinge Action. Similarly, a pin mounted perpendicular
to a vertical plane produces a vertical blade motion and is termed Vertical
Hinge Action. The same logic holds for Angled Hinge Action.
To clear the Fog, take a pencil and position it perpendicular to the cover of
a book. Maintaining that perpendicular position of the pencil, lay the
book first horizontally; then stand it vertically on its end; and finally
tilt it at an angle. Note that no matter what the plane of the book --
horizontal, vertical or angled -- the pencil remained perpendicular to
the book.
Now, substitute a hinge for the pencil. Like the pencil, the pin is always
perpendicular to the surface of the book. And the rotation of the blade
around its pin is always the same, no matter how you position the
book. Only the Plane of Motion differs, and it is on that basis that the
Hinge Actions are classified.
Glad you are back Yoda/
For dual horizontal hinging , the left wrist stays vertical to the horizontal
plane(or the ground) from impact to followthrough. It's described as a full
roll feel because the left wrist is rotated/rolled in relation to the
inclined plane. However, the left wrist doesn't rotate/roll in relation to
the horizontal hinge plane, and the hinge plane is the plane to pay attention
to during the hinging interval. The hinge pin/blade is vertical to the ground
from impact to follothrough. IS the above correct?
For angled hinging, the left wrist remains vertical to the inclined plane. Why
is it called a half roll feel, and not a no roll feel?
I think after tongiht, after wading through the Yoda primer and other back
discussions, I may finally have an inkling about hinging. Horizontal hinging
still feels like one long/large swivel. Isn't horizontal hinging sort of(I
know you hate seems as if)like a partial swivel, when compared to the
inclined plane? Even though I understand that during hinging, the hinge
plane is the focus for clubface control.
[Bold by Yoda/Yoda.]
DDL,
In order:
1. Your first paragraph is correct. Congratulations!
2. Each of the Hinge Actions has its own distinct Feel and Clubface
Motion through Impact. You are confusing the two, i.e., the Feel
of a Motion with the Mechanic that produced that Feel. Contrary to
your statement, Angled Hinging is described as having a No Roll Feel.
The Half Roll you mention concerns Angled Hinging's Half Roll of the Clubface
through Impact, i.e., halfway between Close Only and Lay Back Only. In other
words, the No Roll Feel produces a Half Rolled Clubface. And
vice versa.
Similarly, Vertical Hinge Action has a Reverse Roll Feel and an
actual No Roll (Square or Lay Back Only) Clubface alignment through
Impact. Horizontal Hinging has a Roll Feel and a Closing Only Clubface
(Full Roll).
3. You are again correct. Horizontal Hinging causes the Flat Left Wrist to
Close in relation to the Plane Surface and accordingly, the Clubface to close
in relation to the Plane Line.
Could you please show DualHorizontal Hinge on a picture. I really have
difficulty trying to imagine this hinge.
In Dual Horizontal Hinging, the Left Arm is the second
("dual") hinge. It is "attached" to the primary
Horizontal Hinge (that controls the Clubface alignment) and serves as
an Angled Hinge that lowers the Club vertically onto the Inclined Plane (that
controls the Clubshaft alignment).
The Golfer using Horizontal Hinge Action (a Closing Only Motion of the
Clubface) is almost always also attempting to maintain the Clubshaft on an
Inclined Plane. Therefore, for all practical purposes, the two terms -- Horizontal
and Dual Horizontal -- are interchangeable.
The only exception would be with Putting and Chipping, where at the Player's
option, Horizontal Hinging can be produced while maintaining the
Clubhead directly on the Target Line, i.e., in a Vertical Plane of Motion.
Because such a procedure eliminates the Inclined Plane, there is no need for
a second Hinge to control an Angled Plane of Motion. Hence, Horizontal (Only)
Hinging is the designated Variation, not Dual Horizontal Hinging.
Problems with substituting Swivel for Hinging (over-Roll) BM#194
Originally Posted by rwh
Originally Posted by matt
A couple of points to add to rwh:
For Horizontal Hinging, the clubhead's leading edge will be pointing along
the plane line. This doesn't mean that it's running parallel to the plane
line.
For Angled Hinging, the clubhead's leading edge will be pointing across the
plane line - about at 45 degrees like he stated.
For Vertical Hinging, the leading edge is perpendicular to the plane line and
the face had laid back. This means the face is now not only perpendicular to
the plane line but also facing the sky much more than with a Horizontal
Hinge.
Good points, Matt.
As Matt has stated with regards to Horizontal Hinging, the Toe of the Club
will point along the Plane Line at the end of the Follow-Through (the
Both Arms Straight position). If the Leading Edge of the Clubface is running
parallel to the Plane Line, then the Left Wrist has Swiveled prematurely, and
this puts the Swingle of the Flail out of line with its Handle just as much
as any other form of Throwaway (2-G).
Swivel = Independent rotation of the Wrist and Forearm BM#201
Originally Posted by Ringer
Sorry Yoda.. but I am not sure if that answers my question or not. Are
you saying the alignment is merely the result of either?
From what I know... and looking at 4-O... there appears to be only reference
to these movements based on hand motion only. This does not account for arm
participation. Yet quite clearly 4-C is only possible with a rotation of
either the forearm or the whole arm.
To me I would think a distiction between forearm rotation and entire arm
rotation would be a rather important subject to discuss when we look toward
what parts of the body are being effected by each stroke pattern.
As I've stated repeatedly in numerous posts, there is no true Rotation (of
the Left Wrist, Arm or anything else) in the Hinge Action. The Flat Left
Wrist -- and you can throw in the rest of the Arm if you want to -- remains
Vertical to the selected Plane of Motion. Only in the Swivel is there
a true, independent Rotation of the Wrist and Forearm.
Drive Loading/Angled Hinge vs. Drag Loading/Horizontal Hinge BM#43
Originally Posted by EdZ
On the longer putts, would you then suggest more of a horizontal hinge? So
as a benefit/tradeoff in putting (and at least in theory, full swing) hinge
action would most ideally move from vertical, to angled, to horizontal as the
putt/shot became longer? [Bold by Yoda.]
Angled Hinge Action is the natural consequence of all Strokes
-- Putting or other -- actuated by Right
Arm Drive.
Horizontal Hinge Action is the natural consequence of all
Strokes -- Putting or otherwise -- actuated by Centrifugal Force.
Therefore, using Horizontal Hinge Action with a Right Arm Drive Putting
Stroke is unnecessary, incompatible and inadvisable. With the Short Putter
and a Swinging Procedure, Horizontal Hinge Action is perfectly acceptable, on
Long Putts or Short.
Vertical Hinge Action is always a deliberate mechanical manipulation
of the Clubface. It is the natural by-product of neither Hitting (Right Arm Drive) or
Swinging (Left Arm Centrifugal Pull). Therefore, it is better to use Angled
Hinging and a steep Plane as its preferred substitute.
Clubface control for "True" Swingers, Manipulated Swingers & Hitters BM#129
Originally Posted by Ringer
I am not David, but I too have a reputation on a few forums as anti-TGM.
The first and foremost in my mind is that of the clubface being controled by
the hands. I can quite clearly demonstrate otherwise...
For the true Swinger, Centrifugal Force controls the Clubhead
Power and the Clubface Alignment.
For 'Manipulated Clubface' Swingers, Centrifugal Force controls only
the Clubhead; the Clubface is best aligned by the Flat Left Wrist executing
its Hinge Action (2-G and 7-10).
For Hitters, Muscular Thrust Powers the Clubhead, and the Flat Left
Wrist aligns the Clubface.
Hybrid Mode
